Episode 6: Annie Reickert

When I began BJJ 22 years ago, I was 19 years old and had no clue or ambition for the substantial role it would play in my life. I was just intrigued by this new and unusual practice and had an insatiable desire to be good at it. I reflect back on these years and the invincibility I felt as I threw myself into training and competition in a relatively obscure art. I had zero expectation of anything because the art was so emergent. I grew in tandem with the practice itself as it expanded out of Brazil. Those early years were so carefree and…fun.

My guest this week is taking the water sport world by storm with her love, curiosity and determination to harness the power of the ocean. She is exploring and challenging the idea of what a human can possibly do within the medium of water. Like BJJ, water sports continue to evolve and it’s hard to say what is and isn’t possible. She is an example of the kind of athlete that comes around once in a generation, the kind of artist that will leave an impact on the art itself. Her instagram pages are filled with wild, graceful and astonishing images of her thrashing through waves, soaring through the sky kite-surfing, or charging hard down the face of a gigantic 50 ft. wall of water. In my years I’ve learned that we may not be invincible, but Annie Reickert is certainly super human.

Her drive and passion are so refreshing because it’s so clear that the ocean has simply been her best friend. The free and playful spirit she brings to her pursuit of being the best water woman in the world is something I feel we lose in our experience. I can admit that they are qualities I’ve lost myself in the past. We sometimes come to believe that external signals of our success are more important than our love and expression of self.

Annie was an absolute joy to interview. I’m very grateful to her for making the time to talk to me between flying through the sky and leaping off the face of mother nature’s tears.

Thank you to Erik Antonson from https://www.instagram.com/the.progression.project/?hl=en for introducing me to this incredible young woman.

Full Transcript:

Intro:
Welcome to the Master and the Apprentice, featuring jujitsu world champion and peak performance coach, Emily Kwok. This is a podcast that explores the relationship between the beginner and the expert that guides their journey to mastery. In each episode Emily is joined by a world class expert within their domain, and together they share lessons on skill acquisition, leadership, peak performance, and other factors needed to achieve world class success.

Emily Kwok:
All right, thank you so much for tuning in to the Master and the Apprentice where we explore the path from apprenticeship to mastery. Today I'm super excited to be talking to this young woman, and she is young, and her name is Annie Starr Reickert, I hope I pronounced that properly. She is currently taking the world by storm in multiple disciplines. What an impressive career this person has had so far, I mean think about the long life she will live and she has already been such a phenom and dominated in the areas of surfing, standup paddle surfing, foiling, kite foiling, which, I mean her footage on her Instagram profile is totally wild. And she also happens to be a creative, she illustrates and is also quite the artist. So Annie, you so much for taking the time to be with me today.

Annie Reickert:
Thank you. I know, I'm so excited that we can make this work and I feel like it's so fun to get to talk. You don't get to meet everybody nowadays and so getting to talk about all this is really cool, and I'm excited to kind of see what we can discuss.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah. So maybe just to get us started, I want to just shamelessly mention to the audience that in trying to do research for the interview today I came across a lot of really great articles written about you, but written about you from the foiling perspective, or the kite surfing perspective. You're in your early twenties, is that correct?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, I turned 20 in July, so I just turned 20.

Emily Kwok:
Okay. Oh my God, a little baby. So being 20 years old and already having made such a huge impression and really gaining momentum in multiple faces of water sports, can you go into a little bit more detail about what sports it is that you're doing? Are you competing in them? Are there any notable titles or things that we should recognize? Because there was so much out there and I was like, what is the best way to talk about Annie?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, no, it's definitely a weird topic. It's hard to put a label on exactly what I'd say I do. I think in general terms if anybody asked I'd say I'm a professional water woman, so I love to compete and I love to just do as many, pretty much ocean sports as I can possibly do. My name is Annie Reickert, my middle name is Starr so that's how you got that. And yeah, I was born and raised on the island of Maui in Hawaii. My parents took me surfing when I was two on the front of their board for the first time and I fell in love with the water. And both my parents are super outdoorsy, they love nature and my dad spent a lot of his life in the ocean, I think that's kind of just why I gravitated towards it. And also living on an island there's only so many parks and playgrounds you can go to, eventually most children gravitate towards being in the water.

Annie Reickert:
And yeah, so I was raised surfing, doing all sorts of sports too. And then when I was about 11 or 12 that's when I picked up standup paddling, and standup paddling is what kind of got me into the competitive side of the water sports that I do, and that kind of introduced me more into the professional athlete world. And that was really exciting and I didn't really know if anything would come of it. And then I had the opportunity to homeschool throughout high school and compete in standup paddling, both stand up paddle surfing and stand up paddle racing.

Annie Reickert:
And then from there I love to surf, I competed it when I was younger, I didn't do it quite as much at that time. And then from there I kind of just started to branch out and that's when I gravitated towards the big wave surfing, which was something I'd wanted to do from a really young age but at a certain point takes a lot of time and effort to train yourself for that moment. And then I got into the foiling and I got into the winging and all the other sports kind of came along with it. And that's kind of where I am at this point, trying to work on and master and just kind of figure out all of these different ocean sports and compete in as many of them as I can, especially with COVID times and hoping that the contests kind of can come back.

Emily Kwok:
All right, Annie, I think you're being a little humble. I mean it seems like you are out there doing some big things, not only on your own but also doing some big things with big people. Are there some particular titles, or competitions, or things, accomplishments that you may be particularly proud of? Just so that people can understand that you're not just doing these things but you are doing them deeply.

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, of course. No, I get weird talking about myself because of course I love to talk about what I'm passionate about, and when it comes to what I've competed in too it's a totally different thing. And so yeah, there are a couple moments that I'd say, probably some of the best moments of my entire life have come from competing and doing this stuff.

Annie Reickert:
I'd say probably a standout for me, I'd say it was the best day of my life, was when I got to compete in the [inaudible 00:05:42] Jaws Contest in 2019. So that's a big wave event that, there's a holding period for it, it spans of a couple months, and it has to be a big enough swell to hit Hawaii in order for the contest to run. And I was a wild card into the event, I hadn't spent much time surfing big waves, I was still very new to it and I still am to this day. And I had honor of competing with some of my heroes and all the people that I've looked up to. And then I ended up getting third in the event, which was amazing. And it was really, really special to be able to do that and be out there. And then the fact that I was able to compete at such a high level and place third and beat a lot of people that I never thought I'd be able to beat was really cool.

Annie Reickert:
And I think I'd say, so that was in the big wave of surfing side of things, I'd say another big achievement for me was on the foiling side of things and that's when I foiled across the Ka'iwi Channel, which is a channel that is between Molokaʻi and Oʻahu here in Hawaii. And I am so far the only female to have crossed the Ka'iwi Channel on a foil. And I'm really hoping that I can get others to join in, but I think for me that was probably another big moment just because it was setting out, I was going to be unknown, I didn't know if I could do it. I of course had put in time and training and I think being on the water no matter what sport you're doing really helps. But I think that stands out for me just because it was something so big that hadn't been done before, and I'm still so far the only female that's accomplished that.

Emily Kwok:
Wow. So just to give people some perspective, when you are talking about surfing big waves like when you came in third place at Jaws, how big are we talking here? Because my version of a big wave is like when it goes 10 foot high and as a beginner I'm like, nope, don't feel like losing my life today. And your version of big wave surfing is I know a lot bigger, so just for people who are listening in what is a big wave?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, so the specific day that I was talking about at the contest I'd say that the average wave is probably between 40 and 50 foot faces, so a building. It's definitely big, yeah. So as high as you can look up. And then I've been out in big waves with faces probably up to 65 feet, which it's hard, all at that big scale it's hard to be able to tell the difference. But when you're looking up at a wave that big it feels, it even feels big for me, it feels unbelievably large.

Emily Kwok:
I can only imagine, only imagine. I probably will only imagine. And then the channel, this was a significant achievement in your life. Why does the channel, why is it so challenging to paddle? Why haven't more women done it? Why haven't more people done it?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, so I think there's a couple different reasons. I mean the Ka'iwi Channel itself, it's also known as the Channel of Bones, which is a tad bit intimidating.

Emily Kwok:
Oh, sinister.

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, exactly. But I think yeah, there's a couple different reasons. I mean there have been generations and generations of people to OC1 paddle, OC6 paddle, canoe paddle, stand up paddle across this channel, both male and female. And I had the honor of paddling it on a team, stand up paddling it two years before I foiled it, and so I'd crossed the channel before and it was really great experience to be out there. And I think the foiling side of things, just because for people who don't know, foiling is a sport, it's a weird new sport. It's really caught on, it's kind of like a side, a niche of surfing in a way. You have a surfboard, you have a mast, and it's pretty much what I like to describe as an underwater airplane under your board, which makes you levitate above the water and the foil is what carries you through.

Annie Reickert:
And so when I was crossing between this channel there's a lot of wind swell that just is generated, just because Hawaii is very windy, there's a lot of just power in the ocean in between the islands. And so I'm using the foil to harness the power of the ocean and cross this channel, which is 32 miles. And so I think one of the reasons that I'm the only female who have done it, and there's only a select few guys who've done it so far, is just because first of all, foiling is such a new sport. And I think it is, there's a lot of unknown into it because so many people have done it in the past with all of these other crafts. And because foiling has just kind of come in and it's a very, very new thing there haven't been a lot of opportunities for other people to do it.

Annie Reickert:
And so I think that's why it was such a big moment for me just because I think there are going to be people down the road, there are going to be a lot, hopefully a lot of females to do it. And the fact that I was out there first to try and attempt it as exciting. And it made me kind of hopeful, and proud, and excited to kind of get more girls out there doing it with me.

Emily Kwok:
Love that, thank you for giving us a little bit more context because I think part of my reasoning for doing this boutique podcast is to really shed a little bit more light on the work that goes into performance, and what it takes to internalize and be really, really good at what it is that you're doing. And so it's one thing for us to imagine or assume what a big wave is or how treacherous the channel may be, but it's a very different feeling and it's a very different sense that people come away with when you can give them more details to fully understand and respect how challenging and what a big deal it's been that you've been able to accomplish these things. And I might also say at just such a young age to be so driven to do not just one thing but multiple things. So really amazing.

Emily Kwok:
I'd actually love to get your perspective or your insight on what the medium of water has been to you. I read in a number of interviews, and you also said at the beginning of this podcast that you began on the front of your parents' surfboard as a toddler. And so I'm going to imagine that the medium was introduced to you very early and there's a certain level of comfort about it, but what has water meant to you over the years? And it can be very triggering for some, like I almost drowned when I was six, and so for me to be able to swim in open water and try to take surfing on, that was a big challenge because I used to get very anxious trying to swim longer distances or being in open water. And in your experience it seems like you came to this quite naturally or you were raised in that medium. So could you speak a little bit about the element of water and what it's meant to you?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, definitely. I think yeah, growing up I had a really different experience than it sounds like you did, which I'm sure was no easy thing to overcome. So for me yeah, growing up on an island my parents introduced me to the water when I was tiny. And I think I've always had a natural gravitation towards it, I've always loved being in nature, and I think the ocean for me more than a place that I just go and do these sports, it's kind of like it's my safe space. It's the place that I love, it's the place that no matter where I am in the world, if I can go and be on the water, be on the ocean it's kind where I always feel at home and where I always feel at peace. And so I think over, although I haven't been doing this that long, I've been in the water since I was a tiny baby and so I've really grown for this just love and attachment.

Annie Reickert:
And I think it's yeah, it's my safe space, I think that's the easiest way to put it. Because for me whenever there's something in my life that I don't understand, or there's just something going on that can stress me out, or I think right now just with the whole world the way it is, there's so much going on, and so much hurt, and so much hate, and it's so sad. And so for me, whenever all of that kind of gets caught up in my mind I can go on the water, whether it's just going for a swim, or it's going surfing, or it's just enjoying being in the ocean and being in that medium, it makes me feel at peace. And so for me yeah, growing up I was really blessed to have the opportunity of having a good relationship with the ocean, because it is a really intimidating place. And I still, there's no such thing as mastering the ocean, you are always at the mercy of the water.

Annie Reickert:
So I fortunately was raised in a way that we were at the beach every weekend, and we snorkeled, and we dove, and we swam, and we surfed, and so I really spent a lot of time getting comfortable with it from a young age. But yeah, I think that's why I'm doing this because for me, not only do I love the sports but I love the being in the water itself, which is just a deeper connection than I never really thought that I'd have. But over recent years as I've gotten older I've really realized that it is something that I hold so dear to my heart.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah, I mean it's beautiful. I feel like in many ways if you aren't comfortable in your environment it really inhibits your ability to grow and progress. Because it's another barrier you have to get through.

Annie Reickert:
Exactly.

Emily Kwok:
So just learning about the fact that you started so young, it's like people will say, oh, well if you start doing jujitsu when you're five years old your quality of movement as an adult is much higher. Because I don't know what happens to us, I guess as we get older we unlearn things, and we become safer, and we don't embrace things as much. And so it's harder I think to have your body be one with the medium. I've often felt that water in some ways is, ocean water is one of the most difficult foundations to understand. Because in my sport, in Brazilian jujitsu, the ground does not move and it's there. You can show up at 3:00AM in the morning and it's there.

Emily Kwok:
But I live in New Jersey and trying to learn how to surf in New Jersey is not very easy because the way they build the shore up and the fact that you have to wait for the swell and yes, you can surf year round but you might be looking like a whale in January. And it's hard because you can't just do it when you want to do it. And just because you do it today doesn't mean that it'll be the same tomorrow. There's so many conditional variables to the water and I just think it's tremendous, so I have a great amount of respect for what you do and the fact that you feel at ease in that element because it's not so predictable.

Annie Reickert:
Definitely. Yeah, it has a mind of its own. I think that's why I kind of decided to pick up so many sports in a way, just because spending so much time near the water you realize just how much it actually does change. And it is one of the most unpredictable things in the entire world. One moment it'll go from beautiful, calm, and glassy to overhead seas and out of control wind. And yeah, I think it's something that you'll never be able to master, you're always at the mercy of the ocean no matter where you are in the world, what body of water you're on, I think you're never going to be in complete control. It's a kind of a respect thing almost, you kind of have to realize that yeah, the ocean is going to do what it's going to do and you just are kind of along for the ride.

Annie Reickert:
And I think that's why I kind of got into so many sports just because here on Maui growing up it's changing all the time. There's so many different conditions for so many different things and I wanted to be on the water as much as I could. And so for me, that was picking up all these different sports that I could do pretty much no matter what the ocean was like. So let's say if it's windy, I have a wind sport I can do. If there's waves I can go surfing. If it's flat I can go stand up paddling, or I can go foiling, or I can go diving. And so that's kind of exactly what you're talking about, just because it's always changing, you never know what you're going to get. You can wake up one morning and it's completely different than what you expected. That's why I really do love kind of having all these different sports to incorporate depending on the conditions.

Emily Kwok:
Wow. So was surfing your first water sport that you started because you went out when you were so young?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, that was my first sport.

Emily Kwok:
And who taught you how to surf? And then from surfing was it easy to evolve into some of the other mediums? Did you have to quote unquote take lessons or were you sort of raised in such a communal way that one thing kind of bled into another?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, I'd say I started surfing at two. And my parents were the ones that it taught me how to surf, they were the ones that got me on a surfboard. We had this thing called surf Sundays, so every Sunday we'd go over to the west side of Maui, which is genuinely, usually Maui it's kind of there's different sides to the island and say, Maui's north shore is where you're going to find waves such as jaws and really, really big powerful swells. And then Maui's west and south sides of the island is where you're going to find calmer waters, it's easier to surf small waves, snorkel, and just do kind of easier, less life threatening things. And so that's where I learned to surf on the west side of Maui. And so we'd go over there every Sunday and I'd spend all day surfing and my parents were the ones that got me out there.

Annie Reickert:
I never really took lessons, they knew how to do it from moving here before and so they taught me. And then yeah, I actually never really took lessons for any of the things that I got into weirdly enough. But now that I think about it, I kind of just gravitated and I had a lot of friends that they either knew how to do it, or we were learning at the same time, and we pretty much just went out there and kind of gave it our best shot and messed around. And usually it was just us having fun and we never really thought anything of it. We were like oh yeah, this is a super cool thing, this is such a fun thing to do when it's good for these conditions. And so I never really considered that any of this would go into a career. And then eventually down the line when I was probably I'd say like 14 I was like wow, I'd really love to compete in all this stuff. But I think pretty much just when I got the equipment that friends had I would go out and borrow it on all these different sports, and then eventually with their help and just kind of watching videos I'd figure it out.

Emily Kwok:
It's funny, so my own experience with the trying to learn how to surf has been pretty dismal. And I kind of wonder if there's parallels here. So Brazilian jujitsu, a lot of people will say is like the hardest thing that they've ever learned how to do, because although the foundation doesn't change on you, jujitsu is as a sport or an art is constantly evolving and there's a lot different movements and variables in those movements. And they call it a thinking person's chess, or like physical chess because there's a lot of complexity to how it works. So the early days of Brazilian jujitsu people didn't really teach you, they would try to recruit you as a training part because they selfishly wanted more people to try their moves on. And then there wasn't a ton of instruction. So I kind of called my early days of learning jujitsu, like you got hazed into the sport.

Emily Kwok:
And I find that earlier on when I tried to learn how to surf the process was not that different. So I would have friends that were lifelong surfers and they would be like, hey, you should come try this. And I'd be like, okay. But then when you're a beginner and nobody's ever taught you how to paddle out past the break, or how to paddle to begin with, or stay on your board, or what size board you just make all of these foibles and mistakes. And early on I had a very miserable time trying to learn how to surf and I just thought, you know what, because I was an adult already. I was like, maybe it's just not for me.

Emily Kwok:
But you seem to have approached it, maybe it was because of also your age, where it was a lot more playful. And so can you talk about the quality of maybe resilience and how you've learned? Because I think that when we're not dealing with quote unquote a more structured way of learning where someone may be helping us build certain foundational skills, it's a bit wild. And some people will take to that more naturally than others. And I would even say age plays a role in that, because I think as we learn how to navigate ourselves through the world we learn to receive information in a particular way. But your experience seems to be so much more dynamic and playful, if you will. So can you talk about what resilience has meant to you in that exploratory stage?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, definitely. I think for me being really, really young when I learned to surf, I barely remember that. I don't really think I thought anything of it, I thought my parents were, they said here's this board, we'll go and take you out on the front of it, stand up. I didn't really overthink it. And I think the older I've gotten and the more things that I've learned do I definitely have, I still have that mindset where I'm like, okay. I mean there's only one way to do this is just go out and try it. But I think there's definitely more, you think it through a lot more, in some ways there's self-doubt where it's like, can I learn this? This is weird, this is tricky, it's harder than I thought. I think being really young when I did learn to surf and I did learn to standup paddle, it was pretty much just like oh yeah, I'll just go throw myself out there. If I get washed around in the waves, whatever, I'll figure it out eventually.

Annie Reickert:
And I think there's definitely something to be said for kind of coming in it with more of a mentality kind of like okay, this is my strategy, this is what I'm going to do. Just because yeah, I've definitely had my fair share of situations where, similar to your experience surfing, where you go out there and yeah, friend are just like oh yeah, have fun. Here you go, give it a shot. And you have no idea what you're doing. And I've been so frustrated before trying to learn things, just wanting to quit coming in and being like, I'm never doing that again. That was horrible, I regret that. And then eventually either getting talked into doing it again down the line, or just being so frustrated with myself that I'm saying, I'm not going to give up until I do this.

Annie Reickert:
Just because I think for me at least, like in that setting I get really stubborn where I'm like, if there's something I can't do I get super annoyed, and I want to just do it nonstop until I figure it out. And so it's definitely, it's given me a lot of very frustrating situations, but I think at the end of the day it's so much more rewarding when you kind of have to struggle to learn something. Because when you finally get it just feels so much better because all of the hard work, the blood, sweat, and tears you put into figuring it out finally pays off and it makes you feel just that much more confident because you overcame something you didn't think you could overcome.

Emily Kwok:
Seriously. Yeah, I mean it is true. It's just how much, I don't know if it's do we have the right attitude or we just really extra stubborn that we put ourselves through that torture. But it truly is something to be admired because I think it is so easy for us to give up, especially today there's so many different things that we could be doing with ourselves. Like I want to have a good time and it's not a fun time to swallow ocean water and get stuck on the bottom of a wave, so I'd rather lie on the beach and get a massage instead. And so the fact that you're willing to go do those things says, I think it speaks volumes about what you value in life because what you do is not easy on any day. You make it look easy but it's really not easy.

Emily Kwok:
So you mentioned earlier that when you were a teenager, around 14 you started thinking a little bit more about competition. I'd love to hear about when you felt that you were ready for competition or what drove you to want to compete? When I started competing in jujitsu there were so few women in jujitsu, for me it was an opportunity to see if I fit in with my peers, if I had any peers. And so what drove you to want to compete and how did you know that you were ready for it?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, no, I think that's a great question. So I grew up when I was little doing just kind of fun kid surf contests. And I think it's the same as like you play soccer growing up and you go to soccer games and all that kind of stuff. And so for me that was all just fun. I loved it, I never thought it would be anything else. And then yeah, when I came to around the age of 14 that's when I was stand up paddle surfing, that's when I was like wow, I think it'd be really fun to see what the top level of this sport is like. And I think one of my biggest idols growing up at that age was probably someone named Kai Lenny. And he is an amazing water man from the island of Maui, he's unbelievable in pretty much any craft he can get his hands on. He's really, really talented, he's incredible.

Annie Reickert:
And so I always watched him and I knew him from Maui, and he'd always go to these contests on either neighboring islands or different places in the world and he'd come home. And I'd always watch videos of him and I'd see him do it, and I was really inspired. And so I think the first contest that I was ever in was a contest on the island of Oahu, which is about a 45 minute flight from Maui. And Kai was there and I never really met any of the female kind of competitors that I was going to be going against, and I was really curious because I wanted to go and see, kind of just dip my feet in the water and see exactly who was going to be there and what it would be like just to be at this top stage. And my parents in that point were really supportive and of course they thought for me going and doing that, they thought me kind of going out of my comfort zone and experimenting in that way was super cool.

Annie Reickert:
And so I traveled there, I did the event. I think I might have made it to like the quarter finals, I didn't do amazing. But that feeling that I got from competing and the love for the sport that I had and the love for just being out there at such a competitive level really got me hooked. And from there that's when I said, I was like this is what I want to do, I want to put a lot more time to doing this. I want to get really good, I want to be the best I can be. And from there it kind of just has been a slow trickle of adding on other sports and doing different competitions in that way. But that's kind of how it started where I just wanted to try it for the first time, and when I really got that competitive bug it's something that you can't really get rid of.

Emily Kwok:
So tell us about what it looks like when you are competing in terms of when you choose an event. Well okay, so actually this is a multi-layered question now that I think about it. Because you practice and you train in so many different mediums, how do you pick what you want to compete in? Do you compete in all of them? And then when it comes to training for events, I mean what does your life look like? Are you on the water every day doing something or doing whatever's available to you that day? And then when you're getting serious for a training camp to prepare for something, what are you doing? How do you prepare?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, so I think one of the beautiful parts of Maui and just the ocean general is they're really dependent on the season and the time of year. And a lot of the sports I do are dependent on that too. So Hawaii winters are when we get the biggest swells, and the biggest surf, and storms, and kind of just attention to the north shore of Maui. And so usually in the winter months from between, I'd say like October so it's just starting to ramp up now and all the way through March, is when I'm really focused on surfing big waves and anything that involves surfing pretty much, and just kind of more oriented toward the wave side of things.

Annie Reickert:
And then I'd say in the summer months, that's when here it's generally more flat and usually a lot windier, and that's when I'm focused more on the foiling, and the wind foiling side of things, and anything that involves wind sports. So I think for me it's really nice that usually a lot of the events that I do are separated by the months and by the time of year. So if there's any big wave events I do I can spend a lot of fall training for that and getting ready and preparing myself. And then for the channel crossings that I might do, those all happen in the summertime. And for any of the events that I'm going to do in wind sports, those all happen in the summertime mostly too. There are exceptions but usually that's how it kind of comes and goes. And so it's nice because then I can kind of spend the springtime training for those things that are going to happen in the summer. And so I'm really fortunate to kind of have that schedule.

Annie Reickert:
It definitely is a lot training for different things because every sport, although they do definitely help each other, there's different kind of mindsets you have to have for everyone. Like the big wave surfing is something that, it can be life threatening and so it really kind of requires a certain type of mentality and a special way of looking at it and going into it, versus doing a channel crossing or doing a contest in just normal size waves of some sort, it's really different and it's more about training really hard, and getting really good, and more just about being a really, really good competitor. So I think yeah, doing all that stuff is really cool because the different seasons really help you kind of decide when you're going to do stuff.

Emily Kwok:
Love that. And do you only concentrate on doing that thing? So if you're let's say focused on big wave surfing, do you only train on the water practicing big wave surfing? Or are there other types of things that you do off the water, like do you work out? Are there other types of exercises that you have to, like drills or things that you have to do in the water? What does it look like to prepare for something like that? Because some athletes that I've met, or I should just say creatives and athletes, are very particular about if I'm going to do X I only do X, I don't divert my focus and do something else. And that's a very credible thing to say, that if you want to get better at basketball then you should play with the basketball, do drills with the basketball, and play the game over and over again. But then there may be other people that will say, hey, it's super important that you work on your sprints, maybe some agility work, this is all going to help you improve and round out your performance. How do you feel about that and do you do any different types of training to support whatever your main focus is?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, so I'm definitely more kind of on the latter side of things that you said. I think I'm pretty much doing all of my sports all year round. I'd say definitely, like I said, certain times of year means that I focus a little bit more on certain sports. But like I said earlier, the ocean is so weird and constantly changing, and it's so out of your control that you kind of have to be ready for anything. And so with big wave surfing I can't unfortunately do that all winter because we only get a certain handful of swells every single season. And so I'd say last season I was only out surfing big waves probably seven or eight times all winter, just because we didn't really get swells big enough the rest of the year. And so as much as I'd like to spend all of my time doing that, you only get so many opportunities. And that's why preparing in different ways, using different sports and different ways of cross training is so important.

Annie Reickert:
And that's why I do love having all these other sports because I do them all year round and they really help prepare me for things that I might not be able to prepare for directly. But I definitely do spend a lot of time training on and off the water. I'd say a typical day for me I'm on the water two to three times a day. For example, this morning I woke up and I went for a run and then surfed, and then I had to come back home and now I'm talking to you. And then I think later I might go and potentially get in the water again this evening. So I definitely love to be on the water as much as I possibly can, but I also love to throw in different types of cross training in there just because yeah, I think being on the water nonstop is really, really cool, but there's also a lot of great ways off the water that you can train your body and your mind to help you when you are on the ocean.

Annie Reickert:
And I spend a lot of time in the gym. There's a really great gym here on Maui that a lot of, not just water athletes, but just professional athletes in general go to. And I think that's really cool because we can all kind of share mindsets, and talk about all the different sports we do, and can learn from each other. And then I really enjoy running, that's something that I've done from a young age. And I used to hate it but I've learned to love it in the recent years. And then I also am really into mountain biking too. So I think I like to throw kind of a little bit of everything in there, it's kind of like a mixing pot, and just kind of learn from all of the different things that I do. And I think so far all they've done has helped me and the other things that I do.

Emily Kwok:
Wow. What do you feel some of the interconnectedness presents as? So when you're jumping from one medium into another, what is sort of the main thing, or maybe there's a few main things, that sort of come to you in terms of why it's beneficial to cross train and to have these different modalities available to you?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, I think personally mindset is a really big thing. I think spending time on the water no matter what and just getting comfortable being in extreme conditions is really helpful. And it can help I think just boost your confidence and prepare you for things down the road. And I think in terms of physically helping, I think just being in the best shape that I can possibly be in is really helpful. And then also balance, and technique, and equipment and all this stuff, it really does translate. And I think there's a lot of stuff that actually kind of overlaps with each other. So I could be using my short board and something that I kind of want to translate to the way I foil or the way that my stance is when I surf, versus the way that my stance is when I'm doing a wind sport, they all kind of go hand in hand.

Annie Reickert:
And I think you kind of get to pick and choose from each sport what you like, and you can kind of bring the other into the other and mix them all, which is kind of cool. And so I think yeah, growing up I've watched a lot of these water men and water women kind of do that. Where they don't just do one sport, and they learn from these other sports, and they get stronger and more fit, and just kind of more confident ocean people. And I think it's made them better in the long run just because they have the ability to spend that much more time in the ocean.

Emily Kwok:
Wow, it's truly so impressive when you think about how much time we each take to even become remotely good at doing one thing. And then to see you sort of take all of these things on and to take them on so well, so impressive. Do you, Annie, ever get scared? Because you're not exactly choosing activities that are for the faint of heart. And I wonder in your exploration and your play as you've come to a place where you've obviously got some conviction over what you can do in your learning and even where you are now, do any of the things that you do scare you?

Annie Reickert:
Definitely. No, I'd say that anybody who is out in life threatening conditions on the ocean, I'd say that I'd hope that at least they're a little bit scared. And I think it's more of kind of taking that fear and using it to understand exactly what you're doing, how powerful the ocean is, and kind of take it and turn it into something which is more of excitement. And so I definitely get scared all the time. My mom is convinced that I'm trying to give her a heart attack because she's terrified of the stuff that I do, and I totally understand that. But yeah, there are moments that I have where I'm out there, whether I'm staring up at a big wave, or I'm about to paddle out, or I'm going to go and try a new trick foiling, but I have these moments where I'm afraid and I'm thinking for the amount of fear that I have, is it worth doing this?

Annie Reickert:
And I think there have been situations where I think it through and I'm like you know what, this isn't something I want to do because it does terrify me and I'm not ready for it yet. And there have been other situations where I've pushed through that feeling and come out the other end and I'm like, I'm so glad that I took that leap of faith, and that I kind of went into the unknown, and that I ended up accomplishing that. So I definitely have those moments where I am scared, unsure, not really confident in what I'm doing. And that's when I kind of take a step back, rethink everything, and remember kind of all the mental work that I've done, and just kind of all the time that I've put in, and reassess the situation. But I definitely have those moments of just, what am I doing out here? This is so scary.

Emily Kwok:
When you have those freak out moments have you found that you've typically leaned in or leaned out?

Annie Reickert:
I'd say 90% of the time I lean in. I think, I have a lot of close friends and so usually when I get into these situations where I'm like wow, this is scary, what's happening, I'll confide in them. And I'd say an example of this was in the Jaws contest when I was out there, I was going to compete for the first time and I was watching it. And so how it works at Jaws is it's a cliff. There's no beach for that wave, you have to either take a boat or a jet ski up there, or you have to jump off the rocks. And so

Emily Kwok:
What?

Annie Reickert:
It's a wild experience. It's quite a crazy thing. And so for that day for the contest I took a jet ski out there, and I was with my close friend from Maui who I've grown up with surfing. And he is awesome, his name is Ridge Lenny. And so yeah, we took a jet ski up there and I got to watch a lot of the guys compete. It wasn't turn for the females to go out yet but I got to watch a lot of guys compete and do that. And so for me watching that just brought up this fear where I was like wow, these are the guys that I've looked up to for so long, and they're my heroes. And they're out there and they're falling on these waves, like what am I doing out here? I'm still so new to this whole thing, I have so much to learn, what's going on?

Annie Reickert:
And so that was a moment where I really thought, and I think I knew no matter what I was out there and I was going to compete, but there was definitely that feeling of self-doubt where I was like, this is scary, am I ready for this moment? And that's when I talked to Ridge, and we were out there on the jet ski watching these crazy waves come in and yeah, he's like you put your time in, this is what you want to do, this is what you wanted to do from a young age. I think just go out there and let the ocean kind of tell you what to do. And that's what I ended up going out there and doing.

Annie Reickert:
But that's was one of the most special days of my entire life. So I think having that opportunity almost where you kind of have to make that decision, like do I want to do this? Am I ready for this? And going through and committing to it honestly, although it is scary, I think it is for me maybe in an adrenaline rush kind of way it's what makes me the most excited, and it's what brings me back and what makes me want to do more of it.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah. I like to say that it's, when I'm challenging myself I like to live with a little bit of fear. Because if I know that I'm a little bit scared of whatever's coming next it's because it's pushing me into a place that I've never gone before. And I think that so much of what we do today, what our values are in society are to work towards comfort all the time. We want to have a comfortable temperature, we want to have a comfortable car, we want to have a comfortable standard of living. And I'm just, as much as I love comfort, I also have to question how much it really teaches us about ourselves and whether that's the best way for us to understand who we truly are.

Emily Kwok:
And so when I'm faced with fear I'm always a little bit like oh, I want to kind of jump out the back door. But I then tell myself, yeah, but you know what? This is taking you another layer deeper. We're going to get to know yourself another way and you're going to lean in. And you've prepared to take this on, so you're at the precipice and all you have to do is just kind of take that jump or that little leap forward. And chances are you'll be a little bit better off for it. So I relate to that feeling of fear and I'm glad that you lean into it, because I think so few of us do.

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, no, I've always thought this where I'm like, I think you can see a person's true self and just yeah, true self and true colors when they are put under that little bit of pressure, and that sense of fear, and sense of the unknown, and having to decide what direction they want to go in and it's really cool. And I think that's how I've made some of my closest friends just because of our reactions and the way we handle that kind of thing. And it's a really wild thing for people to deal with, especially being on the kind of audience side of things, where I've had the opportunity of doing and watching these crazy scenarios go down. And it's kind of an incredible thing to see.

Emily Kwok:
I bet. Yeah. I think that when we all get a little bit too stuck in the way that we experience life and we're looking at it through subjective lens, it's so good to connect and have appreciation for what others do objectively. Because sometimes we can't appreciate the things that we actually stand up to do because we're just so immersed in our own experience. But it's so much, I don't know if it's easier, but it's nice to be able to appreciate the challenges that other people take on, and then to in some way, sort of circle that back to yourself and say, hey, I'm super inspired. And if this person did it then that gives me a little bit more courage to take it on myself.

Emily Kwok:
I would be interested to know what, like I think in what I do in Brazilian jujitsu, it's a partnered sport so you need to have another body, another person engaged with you in order to do it. You can't grapple by yourself. And a lot of sports as we know them, are similar. You need to have another person, or a team, or a tool in order to execute and play them. In a lot of the water sports that you're engaged with though it seems that it is a little bit more of an independent nature. And I wonder when it comes to competition, I don't know if this is true but I feel like I've observed that people who are deeply into the water sports space that they can kind of, they're kind of really, I don't know if this sounds a bit cliche or if it's corny, but they're really kind of pushing against themselves.

Emily Kwok:
And I feel like in some ways it's less about comparing your performance to others, because I don't know if it's the nature of the wave and the fact that the conditions aren't always the same. But can you maybe give me your perspective on that? Like when you're out there and you are engaged in competition, where is your head at? What are you trying to accomplish and who are you doing it for?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, no, I definitely think you've picked up on something. I think being in water sports it can be a very isolating thing sometimes competing in it. Just because you don't have, I mean you have a team per se but they're in the background, and I could talk about that in a second. But when you're out there on the water, on your field, you're alone. So there's nobody else out there with you. You don't have a bunch of teammates that have your back. You're not out there talking it up with people that you've spent a lot of time training with. You're pretty much out there in your head, doing your thing, and relying on all the training that you've had. And so it definitely can be kind of weird not having people out there with you.

Annie Reickert:
And I think fortunately growing up on Maui you kind of develop a really, really big team, but they're in the shadows. And so you have close friends, and you have sponsors, and you have coaches and all this stuff, but when it comes down to them being actually out there with you, they aren't. So I think it yeah, definitely takes that next level of just dedication to want to be out there by yourself and want to be out there, not necessarily competing against other people, but yeah like you said, competing against yourself in a way. I think it depends on the sport, more and more I think it is a lot about competing against others in, let's say typical short board surfing,. But when you are out in a big wave setting like that, I know my mind just completely ignores the other people that I'm with because for me in my head-

Emily Kwok:
It better be.

Annie Reickert:
Yeah. Pretty much for me it's all about me and the ocean, and I'm focused on what's happening and what's right in front of me, and everything else kind of melts away. So it's a pretty wild experience to be out there and be treating it like it's you in the ocean and that's it. There's nobody else surrounding you and it's just that.

Emily Kwok:
Wow. Are you thinking when you're out there, like how do you get into a state of flow with that kind of stuff? Because not for nothing, but big wave surfing is like, that shit gets real. When I've watched some of the footage it looks exhilarating, out of this world, and it also looks frankly terrifying because the person is so small and the wave is so big. And if you make one wrong move I can imagine there's just so many people that get severely injured or lose their life trying to accomplish such a thing. So in your mind are you trying to, do you ride the wave? Do you harness the wave? Are you trying to make friends with the wave? How do you think about what you're doing and how do you get yourself into the state where you are zeroed in and you feel like the relationship you want to have will be there and that you can trust it?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah. So you mentioned that flow state kind of earlier, and that definitely, for me honestly I'm still trying to fully figure out how to get that feeling, and how to get that flow, and how to really fully feel comfortable and tap into the meeting when you're out there. And I think, because a lot of the time all these big wave surfers that I've looked up to for so long, they've been doing this before I was born, or they've just put so much time and effort in and they are masters in this craft. And for me still being so new into this, I think I'd say been surfing legit big waves for three years now, if that. And so I'm still so new into all of this and there's still so much I want to learn. And so yeah, I honestly, I still want to figure out how I exactly to tap into that flow state and what it is.

Annie Reickert:
And I think for me, like what I've found is when you are out in big waves you pretty much just have, you have to first of all, rely on your equipment. I think what's under your feet, what boards you're riding, and just rely on all of the training that you've done and all the time you put in on the past. And when you're going down the face of that huge way you usually, for me at least, it's really about utilizing the power of the wave and the power under your feet, and being really, really spot on with paying attention to what the waves doing. Whether you think the wave is going to barrel, which is when the wave kind of hollows out and crashes around you. Or if you think the wave is going to close out, or if you think you're too deep or too on the shoulder and paying attention for if it's going to be bumpy and you need to brace your knees and bend more, and all of this different stuff.

Annie Reickert:
And so I'm still trying to figure out really how to read the waves, how to tap into all of that and how to really be on my A game at all times. But it's been a really fun experience trying to kind of figure out how to do that and learn the ins and outs of all of that. Because if you aren't on your A game, and you aren't ready, and you are a little bit flustered, and you're not in your flow state then I think that's when you fall, or you make mistakes, or your head's not kind of ready for the state that you're in. And it's definitely quite a thing to figure out.

Emily Kwok:
Wow. Have you looked up much on flow triggers and flow states?

Annie Reickert:
A little bit. I've done a little bit of research and I think it's a pretty interesting kind of concept and it's really cool. And it's something that I would love to focus on more, especially this coming winter it's something that I'd love to think on.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah. I'm recalling some stuff that I've pulled before and the difference between external triggers versus internal triggers. And you seem to have such an internal drive to accomplish these things, and so I wonder how many of these things don't fit in with you but I feel like they all do. So you have a clear goal, unambiguous feedback, you have the right balance in terms of challenge, some autonomy. You're also very passionate about what it is that you're driving towards. And then you're constant trading on what the task is at hand. And then externally, I've asked this of people that I've been close to as well in terms of what they do, but I'm like, do you have a drive or sort of an interest in pursuing life threatening sports or circumstances? Because there has to be some level of risk I suppose, or a high level of consequence.

Emily Kwok:
And then you're also looking for how deeply internalized something is, in addition to whether or not the circumstances will allow you to explore your depth. Like how predictable are the conditions or how much dynamic movement is there. And so I wonder with all of the things that you take on, and in this particular case with big wave surfing, without maybe being hyper aware of all these things it's so clear that you are triggering yourself because you have a lot of these things aligned naturally. And yet some people really struggle to identify and figure out how to get into that flow state. And here you are just sort of allowing curiosity to put you into a place where you can perform at your best, you almost are forced to have to perform at your best because if you don't there are some deep consequences.

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, definitely. No, I think all that stuff you mentioned is super spot on. I think in a lot of the things you do, if you make certain mistakes or you have something that you wish you didn't do and all that stuff, there are ways to learn from that and there aren't really consequences that are as extreme as if you were big wave surfing, or doing something that is life-threatening. I think there's a very fine line, you either make the wave or you don't when you are surfing big waves. Which, if you don't make it you obviously made some sort of mistake or something went wrong.

Annie Reickert:
And you learn what happens, you get sent over the falls, you have to hold your breath, you have so much water land on your head, and you end up having to get rescued or have to paddle yourself out of the impact zone. And so I think that experience really encourages perfection in a way, just because nobody wants to go through that. I think no one's looking to have like a 50 foot wave, yeah, pounded, have a 50 foot wave land on your head. And so I think that really encourages people to want to be on their A game and really want to figure out exactly what it is to be perfect. Because in a setting like that you really can't afford to make mistakes. And I think if you do it just adds to that level of danger to the whole thing.

Annie Reickert:
And you touched on this earlier, which is if you have a drive for just doing crazy things. And I think I definitely have that adrenaline junkie kind of mindset sometimes, just because for me that's I think what all of us chase when we're out here doing athletic things, or just things that make us happier, things that excite us and scare us in a way. I think they kind of go hand in hand sometimes. But that feeling for me when I'm going down the face of a big wave and I pull off successfully and ride the wave out, I think that adrenaline rush that you get, and that feeling of being almost untouchable, and feeling like you're on top of the world is something that's just, it's addicting. And it's a really, really special feeling that I've never been able to find except for in that specific setting.

Annie Reickert:
So I think that's part of the reason that it keeps me coming back, and just also being able to witness mother nature do something like that, like witness her at her most powerful point and actually get to be involved in kind of a part of that just crazy setting, which is surfing big waves. And I think it also comes into play in not just surfing big waves, but surfing small waves. Because I think no matter what you're doing, you're going to be excited, and you're going to be scared, and that feeling that people get from, it's anything. I'm sure you find it in your sport too, that feeling that you get from doing something successfully that might have been dangerous, or might have been scary for you in the past, is just a feeling that's so indescribable and it's really, it's exciting. And it wants you, I think it keeps you kind of coming back for more.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah. I mean I think that there's definitely a, you spoke about this a little bit earlier, the sense of accomplishment. It's really, I think it's so important that as humans we not only think about what it is that we want to do, but that we actually physically express those things as well. And there's no better way to do that than to have some sort of I think physical practice. And so for me in jujitsu, it's thinking about what you want to do, and then it's actually having to play it out, in real life, with another body, in the present moment. And we're in a time where I think it's so easy for us to not be in our bodies. We're talking to you and here you are on the water doing your thing probably more than you would be on a phone or behind a computer screen, but that's not the way most people live. And so to be able to express one's self so deeply and so freely in a format that makes use of both sides, both parts of who you are I just, I think that's such a healthy way to be.

Emily Kwok:
And relative to accomplishment, it's a really nice thing to not think about what it is that you want to be able to do, but to actually go and do those things, to make actionable efforts to see the progress that we make, as opposed to being stuck in our heads and thinking about the progress that we want to make. And I think this is something that a lot of people really struggle with. And so to be in a position where you are actively exercising that relationship, I think is so powerful. I think it's probably what makes you in some way be able to take on more and more, because you're so good at practicing that. Most people don't get to practice that, most people probably don't have some sort of a physical hobby or something that forces them to sort of live with themselves in their physical space. And it seems like that is your element, it's what you do.

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, no, definitely I agree. Because I think for me all I know as an athlete, as a professional athlete, is being active, and being out there, and using my body as a career. But I think I sometimes take it for granted in a way, because I realize just how lucky I am to get to experience that so much. Because so many people don't have the opportunity and they don't kind of have the area that they can go and do that in. And I think for me part of the reason I love to do this is just because it makes me feel good to be out there. And if I can encourage anybody to go and be kind of connected with your body, and your mind, and unite the two of them, and really kind of try and be present, and be whole, and spend time. Whether it's going for a run, or if you can go surfing, or if you can be in the ocean, or if you can be out in nature.

Annie Reickert:
I think it's such a rewarding feeling just feeling like you're present, and you're there, and your mind, and your body are in the same place, and they're working together. Because I can't even imagine being behind a desk and doing that kind of thing can be so taxing, and I think kind of having that release in some way is so important and so crucial. And so, I mean I'm blessed to be able to do what I do. And I think if I could encourage anybody to get out there and kind of chase that feeling that all of us love at the end of the day, it'd be really cool.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah. But what's so impressive, Annie, is you cultivated yourself. I mean most people at 20 years old would not have had such a, not only breadth of understanding in water sports, but also so much depth and to have the agency to pick what's going to help make you better at these things that you love doing. And so that's not so easy to do, to go the other way from what is maybe more traditionally expected of young people, which is to go to school and get an education. You're educating yourself and you're educating yourself in a really dynamic space, so really cool.

Emily Kwok:
Could you speak about or would you be willing to share maybe a particularly challenging episode in your life? Whether it be, I don't know, like a period of time that you were exposed to, or perhaps there was an event, or something that you were training for that had proven to be really challenging? Because in my experience, winning as an athlete feels really good, or getting reinforcement that what you're doing is working is awesome. But I would have to say that some of my greatest lessons have come from the most painful losses. And I don't mean losses in terms of I got second place or something like that, but just things that didn't turn out the way that I had hoped that they would. Have you had any experiences that have sort of fundamentally given you a lot to think about?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, definitely. I think in terms of competing I've had those feelings, and I've dealt with that kind of loss and that struggle, and that, I think for me one of the biggest struggles I've had throughout this whole experience, there's definitely I think you touched on the fact that I didn't go to college and I kind of took a route that wasn't necessarily, it's not normal by any means. And so kind of in that sense I definitely have my feelings of kind of not really being sure about my path and what I'm doing. And if I did make a mistake, because a lot of my childhood friends went off to college and I'm taking this very different career path. And so I've definitely had those thoughts that have crossed my mind, like is this the path that I want to take? And one day do I want to actually go to college and pursue a normal career?

Annie Reickert:
And I think definitely all the experiences that I've had doing this have kind of, they've settled those feelings and they've made me sure that what I'm doing right now is what I'm supposed to be doing. And it's what makes me happy, and it's what I love doing, and it's working for me. And then I think kind of attached to all of that I think one of the biggest struggles I've had this whole experience is, it's with sponsors. Which for anybody, I'm sure everybody is well aware of what that is, but in the surfing world and kind of the water sports world they can be hard to come by, especially as of recently. And so for me, loving these sports and wanting to do them professionally, and wanting to travel for them and compete in them, it can be kind of, I don't know hard and it can be kind of a rude awakening when you find yourself having a hard time finding support or finding people that want to help and encourage you to travel around the world and do this stuff.

Annie Reickert:
And so I think that's something that I have struggled with in the past, just kind of thinking, well if these companies don't see me as useful then why would I see that in myself? And it's just been kind of a battle of realizing that I can go out and do this, and that I don't really need validation from outside sources. It's more of a matter of me competing, and being ready, and doing this for myself and this for the fact that I love it and that I have the lucky opportunity to do this.

Emily Kwok:
Fuck those sponsors, you're so badass.

Annie Reickert:
Thank you.

Emily Kwok:
I think that sometimes it's hard for us to imagine what life could look like if things were a little bit more in our favor, but-

Annie Reickert:
The grass is on the greener.

Emily Kwok:
So with sponsorships, I think it's funny because we're then playing with the external judgment of what we are doing and what our accomplishments are. And in some ways it's like, well how do you value yourself and how do you value what it is that you're doing? Because now I'm sort of giving up my value system or I'm sort of offering up my self-esteem in some ways to people who don't do what I do, and their agendas may be very different from your own. And it was something that I wanted to get into but maybe this is a good bridge into that discussion, but also being a woman does that affect you? Not only in getting sponsorships as in getting sponsorships in whole, like do they want to sponsor women?

Emily Kwok:
And then if they do want to sponsor you, then are they really sponsoring you because you are an accomplished badass athlete, or do sponsors also have the agenda of making you into the type of spokesperson that they want? Which might, in jujitsu sometimes it means the focus is not necessarily on sport, the focus becomes how pretty you are or how you model something. But I wonder how your relationship has been with that with regards to what is your value system and how do you make sense of that in comparison to what the rest of the world wants from you? And what has the world wanted from you?

Annie Reickert:
I think yeah, you definitely have touched on a subject that I definitely, I think it's been something that I've thought about for a long time. For me growing up pretty much with social media right there in front of me, that's been a really interesting thing because I think that plays a big part in it, just because you're putting yourself out there to the world and you're letting people have this view about you. And I think it's the same with sponsors, everybody gets to have your opinion and sponsors might want you to do one thing and you don't want to do that one thing, or they might want to paint a picture of you that's not who you really feel like you are. And it's definitely like that like you said, in the jujitsu world, it's similar in surfing and in all water sports.

Annie Reickert:
There's definitely like, there's a cookie cutter image of what a lot of companies want you to do. And sometimes it depends, it's not even about what you look like, it's more about the sports that you do. Or they say, okay, well you surf, that's great, otherwise we don't really care. Or it just kind of depends. And so it has been weird to kind of be kind of following this path that isn't normal and you kind of have to sometimes make stuff up as you go. And because I'm not just normal surfer there's a lot of different paths that I can take, and there's a lot of different things that are a little bit weird. So it has been really, really interesting to talk to different companies, to just kind of get to know how this world really works on the business side of things.

Annie Reickert:
And it is interesting because it's weird being a female in this world, and it can be really, really difficult, and it can be a struggle to handle all of the different kind of judgment that gets sent at you. Different ways. Like, I mean being in a bathing suit for a living, I do that and I love it. And I think I feel empowered when I get to go out there and be in a bathing suit and surf. And I love to be in board shorts, I love to be in full wetsuits no matter what I am, but it is really interesting to see all of the different kind of attention and the weirdness that you can get for being a female. And when I'm out there and I'm big wave surfing for example, I think I always kind of tend to lead the conversation back towards that because that's probably what I'm most passionate about right now and I think what I've had the most experience with this in.

Annie Reickert:
But when I'm surfing big waves I'm in a wetsuit that is arm length and goes down to my knee, and that's what everybody wears. That's what all the guys wear, all the girls wear, we all look the same out there. But there definitely is kind of a weird stigma for females being big wave surfers. And I haven't felt it that much, but I think for a lot of the females in the past the first girls to go out there and start big wave surfing, it was a struggle because a lot of the guys said, you're not good enough to do this, you can't be out here. What are you doing? You should not be out here. And they pretty much just said, we don't care, we're going to do whatever we want, and we're going to go out and do this.

Annie Reickert:
And so I think for me I've dealt with that in certain terms kind of just on any sport, but it's a lot about taking that potentially negative feedback that you get from the world and kind of learning how to say yeah, I don't really think I'm going to listen to that. I'm going to go and do my own thing, and I'm going to believe in myself, and I'm not going to take what you guys are saying into actual heart.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah, it's a tough landscape to navigate being an athlete who is so multidimensional in what you do. So then to add the complexity of being a female on top of that, I can relate that it's-

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, I'm sure you more than anybody.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah, it's difficult. And I think what sometimes people don't see is when you are the minority, or you're the anomaly, or you're the one that shows up and doesn't look like everybody else, that sometimes the culture towards you is very, well I don't know what to do with you so let me just ignore you. Or how about you just go over there and maybe you'll just lose interest and go away. Or sometimes people can be downright hostile and they really don't want you there. But I like to think of the fact that the world that we live in is a much more diverse space, and maybe in some surfing circles, or big wave, or foiling, maybe they don't want more people on the water because you can save all the good waves for yourself.

Emily Kwok:
But I do think that if we want to share our love and introduce more people to the things that we enjoy doing, that we then need to lead from the front of the room and lead by example. And so to have different faces representing the things that you love doing is so important because I know that for example in jujitsu, it's very meaningful for a woman who's never done our sport to come in and see another woman that's kind of like her doing it, because it inspires people to think, hey, maybe this isn't a silly idea, maybe I can do this too.

Emily Kwok:
And to what you'd said earlier about you've been able to train and learn from some of your heroes, and I think I was reading in one of your articles with one of the, I think maybe it was Jaws, you got not only the opportunity to be around some of your heroes, but you also got the opportunity to compete against them as well. And those are people that you looked up to and now there's one more woman doing it alongside them. So I think that it goes without saying that sometimes when you are leading the line, towing the rope, if you're the person that is doing the things that no one else wants to do, that can be a path with a lot of friction.

Emily Kwok:
But nonetheless, I think it's so important that you kind of stick to your own motivations of what it is that you're looking to accomplish because it's so meaningful, not just for you, but it can be changing for a culture. It's very inspiring to learn about someone like you who's taking on, there is no medium that you won't take on if you're so inspired to do it. And I think that the world needs more role models like that, it needs more people who will lean into their curiosity and not be told that they can't or that they shouldn't, but that you can just with such... I think something that I, that I'm really feeling from you that I love is just the joy that you come to with all this.

Emily Kwok:
Like if you told me that tomorrow you wanted to start base jumping I'd be like, hell yeah, go do it and you're going to be great at it, because nothing is too big. You have this energy that I feel is so great and abundant towards just learning about yourself more deeply and taking your passions to the next level. And I think that that's such an admirable quality and perspective to have, because the world is missing that right now.

Annie Reickert:
First of all, thank you so much. I appreciate that, you don't know how much that means for me to hear. But yeah, I think for me growing up as you mentioned, I had so many people that I looked up to so much. And so for me people mentioned to me like wow, I'm inspired by you, all this stuff. I don't think of it like that and it's been weird for me to hear that just because in my mind I'm still this person just doing my thing, following my dreams, doing what I love. And the fact that I might actually kind of affect other people's lives too for the better has been something that I've realized recently.

Annie Reickert:
And it really gets me excited because if me doing what I'm doing can get, I mean a guy or a girl, but a girl out there doing something that she's never done before, or stepping outside of her comfort zone, or trying something that she didn't think possible because she's a girl. If I could get her to go out there and try something because of it that would just make me, I mean it makes me want to do what I'm doing, and it makes be so excited and so happy to tap into that because I'm still like that. Like I see females who I think are absolutely incredible like you having such a successful and cool, crazy career. I look at you and I am so inspired. So the fact that maybe people would look at me and feel that way just makes me, I mean it touches my heart and it makes me excited, it makes me want to continue what I'm doing just because, not only does it benefit me but it might actually inspire and benefit other females along the way.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah. And to that I say it should not only inspire females, but it should inspire some dudes because like, oh my God-

Annie Reickert:
Of course, everybody. Yeah.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah. And no I just, I think it's so important that as females we have other females to look up to, and bond, and raise up. And part of my, actually when I reached out to Eric and I was asking him about you, part of my motivations with doing this podcast series is it's not going to be a huge series, I'm not sure what I'm signing myself up for so I'm experimenting. And I'm going to record like nine or 10 episodes with different types of individuals, but it was very important for me to try to make at least 30% to 50% of those individuals female. Because not only do I want to give a hand up to all the incredible women that are out there and be a female supporter, and to know that, hey, I relate to you in this space. But I also just think the world just needs to respect and appreciate female athletes. You are an athlete just like this dude is an athlete. And at its best you guys are both expressing yourselves in the best way.

Emily Kwok:
And I just feel in some environments the women are sometimes overlooked, or maybe because there aren't as many of us that we don't get to share more of what we do. And it's so important for me to make examples of and to share with people out there that there are so many incredible people to learn from, and to not dismiss or to forget that it might not be the person that you're typically used to seeing. And there's just so many amazing people out there that are perusing their passions and I want to make sure that, I've worked hard to get to where I am and I want to try to give that opportunity to others, because it's a perspective that we need.

Emily Kwok:
Annie, just mindful of time and I definitely want to make sure that we don't keep each too long. But I have a couple more questions for you and one of those things would be, what do you think you happen to really excel at? Or what is a quality that maybe in all of your different disciplines really stands out to you about what you do and how have you cultivated it?

Annie Reickert:
I'd like to say probably the thing that stands out to me the most would be my determination. I think that's probably a pretty cliche thing to hear from an athlete like, oh yeah, I'm determined and good at it, whatever. But I think for me I've done stuff and I definitely wasn't good when I first started doing these things, and I've put a lot of time and effort in. And, I mean I'm nowhere close to where I want to be, but I've put a lot of time and effort in. And I think seeing that all pay off and seeing the determination and kind of just my level of being dedicated to this has definitely been something that I've worked on and I think that I've excelled in more recently than in the past. And yeah, I think if I had to say one thing it would probably be that. I don't know, I don't like talking about myself in the setting though, it's weird but that's probably what I would say.

Emily Kwok:
Well I see it as, it is always a question that kind of puts people on the spot. But the reason why I ask is because sometimes those things that we're really good at can also be the things that unravel us. And I think when you are performing at such a level, having an authentic understanding of where you think you stand with yourself, like giving yourself the space to develop that self-awareness and know who you are and in what capacity I think is really powerful. And it's interesting some people don't pay attention to it at all and they just kind of live their life day to day. And yet others are very particular about understanding their process. And so it's just a question I like to ask because who knows, maybe you'll have some thoughts about it later.

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, no, that's kind of a fun thing to think about actually. I'd like to say I'm still kind of trying to figure out exactly how to answer that question. Hopefully one day I'll have a clear answer for that.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah, yeah. And when you have that answer send me an email.

Annie Reickert:
Yeah, I'll let you know. Like I finally figured it out thanks to you.

Emily Kwok:
Yeah. I guess, I don't know, is it a revelation to me that the people who I have had the opportunity of being around who've really demonstrated that they're elite and world class at what they do, and this goes beyond the athletic or creative space, for some people it's maybe in business. But when you are really, really good at what you're doing and you've either been singled out or you're just in a position where it's difficult for you to relate to others, I think it's so important to build the scaffolding to understand yourself. And it's, I mean I suppose it was even surprising to me but we don't often give ourselves that space. We're so busy doing whatever it is that we're doing and we're so dedicated to just living that moment, that when do we take a step back, when do we have 100 foot view and think about our process more deeply?

Emily Kwok:
And I suppose it's one of my very good friends and mentors, Josh [inaudible 01:19:24], that helped me see this within myself. And I'm not going to say it's always a fun thing to think about, but it's a curious to think about when you have the time. Because I think if you understand this deeply it actually helps liberate you even more as a performer. Because you have that much more sensitivity and awareness to who it is that you are. Why you and why not someone else? Because I think especially in what you do, if you don't bring yourself completely, if you're trying to imitate, or if you don't fully believe in what it is that you're doing, you run the risk of losing your life. So you got to show up straight.

Emily Kwok:
Okay, so my last question for you is how do you know what you know? And what I mean by that is you've taken so many years to learn and explore, and you're now performing at a high level, you're probably going to continue doing that. And as you said, you are really intrigued and concentrated around big wave surfing. And so God knows where the limits will be, but how do you know that this is right for you? And how do you know when you get on that board and you do it that this is what you want to do?

Emily Kwok:
Because I think there's the difference between learning something and doing it at maybe an elementary or an intermediate level and being decent, like having a good command of your skills. But then there is when there is no place for you to go because it hasn't been carved out yet. So maybe this also relates to your channel paddling as well, that you've internalized what you've learned so deeply and you're taking yourself to new heights. And so when there is no framework and there is no template for how it should be done, how do you know what you know, and what drives that motivation?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah. I think that's kind of an interesting topic because there's, pretty much sky's the limit at a certain point, especially when you get to that point of you're kind of standing and there is no clear path. You get to paint your own picture, you get to create your path. And it is a really wild concept just because yeah, it's the unknown. And I think there can be sometimes the fear of the unknown because you have no idea what comes next and there is no clear outline direction. But I think just from being kind of, I'd say from spending the amount of time that I have with the amazing athletes that I have and from being in the ocean, I'm pretty sure the feeling that I get knowing that I'm doing what I'm doing for the right reasons and doing what I'm doing because I love it and it makes me happy. I'd say yeah, it's from the joy that I get out of all of this.

Annie Reickert:
I'd say if there comes a day where I wake up and I go down to the water, and I don't want to do this and it feels like it's not fulfilling me and I'm not able to make a successful job out of it but it's also just not me following my passion anymore, that's what I'll know that it's not what I should be doing. And I hope and I don't think that day will ever come, but I'd say for me that's kind of a line. For me being out there is what makes me happy, it's where I want to be, it's what I want to do. And so I think if that ever changes, which I hope it won't, that's when I'll know that something needs to change.

Emily Kwok:
Wow. Annie, you my friend are such an old soul. I've tremendously enjoyed this time talking with you. You have a new fan in me-

Annie Reickert:
Ditto, right back at you.

Emily Kwok:
I started following you on Instagram. I was like fan girling before our chat because I was looking at these amazing, the little videos of you foiling and fucking flipping yourself in the air. You just, you do some wild stuff and I'm like, wow. I just have such appreciation for the playfulness. And it sounds weird, but it almost doesn't feel like risk when I'm watching you. You do a lot of things that most people would consider to be nuts. But you just embody this spirit that makes me think like, well yeah, of course she's going to do it because she can. You have such a freedom about your approach to these things.

Emily Kwok:
And it's truly a pleasure to learn about and I am really looking forward to seeing what will be next for you, because you are so young and you are so talented, but more than anything you're also just so curious and hardworking. And I think that it's the perfect combination for you to really take the world by storm. So sponsors, suck her dust if you aren't on top of this lady already. Thank you so much for your time and before we close out, how can people learn about what you're doing? Do you have a website? Do you have ways for people to keep up with all the incredible tournaments, not tournament tournaments. Look at me talking about jujitsu, competitions or appearances that you might be up to?

Annie Reickert:
Yeah. I'd say probably social media wise I'm on Instagram and Facebook and all of those. I don't have a website yet, I'm on my way to making one right now. My dad works in computer science so he's been helping me with that journey. But yeah, I'd say Instagram and YouTube and any of those kind of things. You can look up Annie Starr, which is my tag for most of them, Starr is my middle name. So yeah, I think that's probably the best way people can get ahold of me or follow me.

Emily Kwok:
So awesome. Definitely give this young lady a follow, she deserves it and she's doing some incredible things. Annie, thank you so much for your time today. I really look forward to seeing you in the future.

Annie Reickert:
Thanks so much, I loved our talk. This was awesome.

Emily Kwok:
Awesome. Peace, thank you.